Panquesito

is alice: asylum completely retconning the two previous games or what? edited because i originally wrote this at 12am

Whaddup, Tumblr, your favorite meta Alice fan here.

So I found some really conflicting timeline stuff on McGee's pateron page.

And so you all know, this is my opinion. I, frankly, am not digging this idea of a third game is a prelude to the two previous games. I don’t think it does well story-wise, I think the story is pretty much done, and I don’t have much faith in McGee creating a third installment with how Otherlands went.

But if you’re a diehard fan or just really know canon details like a lot of us, you know the timeline starts right after “Through the Looking Glass”, which was November 5th, and while it’s not really declared in game, we know from the beginning of the first game Alice is pretty young, like tiny. According to the booklet that came with the first game (Wilson’s casebook) she was seven when the fire happened. Then, with the mini app game before “Madness Returns”. To also back this up, Alice states that she is seven and a half years old in the first book and these games establish that the books are apart of the canon. If they didn’t they wouldn’t have things like the Looking Glass Line or the White Queen and King, things like that. That means Alice is still seven years old. The mobile game/storybook is canon; we know that from Alice’s past memories regarding her stay in the infirmary and that happens to be one year after the fire:

Humor me, y'all, here’s the basic timeline I have made for my own reference on whim originally. But after viewing Wilson’s casebook, now I can line it up a bit better:

1863:

She states that she’s seven and a half years old in the first book
“Through the Looking Glass” takes place six months after the previous book
The fire takes place the day after the events of “Through the Looking Glass”.
Alice is sent to an infirmary, completely catatonic (this is confirmed by the mobile game, via “Evening London News” in the storybook.
Wilson comments how her skin was so burned, it’s like fish scales in one of her memories in the Deluded Depths; this also backs the infirmary information.

1864-1873:

Since Alice is in such a catatonic state, she is sent from the infirmary to Rutledge Asylum. Note that Wilson says she is reported as blind, deaf, and dumb because she isn’t moving or talking.
She is catatonic, she does not move; you can hear Pris Witless yell at her how she won’t even get up to use a bedpan and she has to be forced.
Doctor Wilson comments how she has feverish dreams and he notes that some nights, she is screaming in her sleep in December of 1864.
In 1864, Wilson decides to try shock therapy on her. We can also assume this is when they started doing various experiments on her throughout her stay.
In 1865, there are more notes regarding Wilson’s treatment of blood-letting and how pale she looks.
There’s a note in here about Nurse D- (that may be the nurse that’s also complaining to her in her psychotic manifestation and memory of Rutledge before the Dollhouse).
Wilson also tries letting the nurses take her out to get air in the garden to see if she reacts.
The surgeon Grantham takes a look at Alice and notes to Wilson her trauma is greater than he thinks and he sees her emotional response as valid considering the loss of her family.
Charles Dodgson/Lewis Caroll releases “Alice in Wonderland”, November 26th, 1865. He is mentioned off-handedly in AMR by Lizzie, complaining how he can’t row a boat. In real life, Charles was friends with the Liddell family and based the book on the youngest child, Alice Liddell, who Alice is named after, continuing the book and game canon connection.
Wilson also tries a straight jacket, restraints, solitary confinement, and other methods to aggravate Alice. Noe that Grantham’s initial response seems to be the only rational one, here.
And then we have this time here where you can fill in the rest of how Alice doesn’t seem to talk and remains locked up in her own mind. It doesn’t seem like it’s at all pleasant from her memories.

1873 now that I’ve really had a chance to look through the casebook:

Alice starts to gradually open up from her catatonia by drawing.
Sometimes Alice has violent outbursts but that’s due to the abuse she endures from the staff.
She starts to talk about Wonderland, albeit, very brokenly.
The orderlies are now visibly abusing her around Wilson, but it seems they may have been abusing her longer given her memories.
There are occasional violent outbursts from Alice. Alice is really acting out throughout the fall of 1873.

1874:

The start of the first game begins!
While Alice is battling Wonderland creatures, it seems that she is really acting out more violently to the staff. It’s like she’s putting her foot down.
Wilson laments how he wants to keep Alice in Rutledge for the rest of her life and how he’s tried every method to bring Alice back to reality.
August 24th, 1874 is Wilson’s last entry… if it is an entry by Wilson. With the end of the entries, Alice is out of Rutledge.
Let’s assume she thought she was going to go to extended family but that doesn’t appear the case (re: her aunt and uncle) and Pris hooks her up with Bumby immediately to continue her “treatment”

1875:

Madness Returns begins and it states that it is a year later, so that’s eleven years after her stay in Rutledge.
We know from the comments and Alice’s overall comfort of her blackouts, Alice is struggling severely with flashbacks, disassociation, and blackouts (Pris remarks “I heard some days she can’t remember her own name!)
She’s struggling to remember details no thanks to Bumby
The game reiterates she was in the asylum for 10 years via her memories by both Pris, Nanny, and then some.
Bumby is dead. Bye, Felicia.

The 10-year Thing:
Okay, guys, keep that 10-year thing in mind. They say 10 years, in both games, in the case file booklet, and in the storybook. So, here’s where I have a problem on McGee's Pateron posted on September 30th, 2017:

“Keep these dates in mind: 1863 - the year of the fire - Alice’s family is killed. 1864 - Alice admitted to Rutledge Asylum. 1865 - Alice is 13 years old - THIS is where "Alice: Asylum” takes place. 1866-1873 Alice in a coma. 1874 - Alice returns to Wonderland in “American McGee’s Alice” - age 22. 1875 - Alice is 23 and ventures into “Madness Returns.” (Check out the 2nd tab of the spreadsheet).“

American McGee has been on record that Alice was 18 years old in AMA and then 19 years old in AMR in an interview prior to AMR’s release.

And here’s that 10-year thing again, though now it doesn’t make sense with McGee’s commentary:

"When we first see Wonderland in "Madness Returns” it looks healthy and alive. This is because of the battles fought in the first game to put things right again. Of course, then the Train begins its mission to destroy everything and Wonderland is once again thrown into disarray. But we are going back in time 10 years - to a place before all that…“

By this, it’s contradicting everything that we know about the material so far. If that is taking ten years before AMR and AMR takes place ten years after the events of her in Rutledge, then that would mean that Alice was in Rutledge longer than what we were told. Now, if were were to just go with the current timeline and use "Alice: Asylum” within the ten years of Alice emerging from catatonia, it would make sense. But if theoretically, AMR is taking place ten years after this, then this completely makes the timeline that McGee and his writers very, very fuzzy. Not to mention, Alice is catatonic, she is not in a coma, she’s catatonic. If Alice was comatose, she wouldn’t remember all of these horrible details. And Alice’s catatonia happens in the first few years of her stay in Rutledge.

McGee is also intending to use “Alice: Asylum” as the stages of grief. This isn’t so much of a timeline issue, but each of her adversaries represents an aspect of her personality. Wonderland is already a tool of denial of some form; it’s Alice’s psychotic state transforming into something because she cannot and doesn’t want to accept her reality. There is no need for a narrative for the stage of denial because we were already there. We can also say that tidbits of AMR are essentially denial, through her repressing memories via the Centaur, the Caterpillar yelling at her how she doesn’t want to see the truth, the Carpenter saying that things aren’t what they seem, and then the Red Queen distinctly telling her she does not want to see what is around her (i.e. “You don’t know your own mind?”).

Repression can be a form of denial and a coping skill. The psychosis she manifests is disassociation both through her catatonia and her unwillingness to cope and accept what was going on. We know for a fact that the Red Queen especially represents her ANGER in particular, so how could “Asylum” do that when we already know that Alice’s anger is tangent and white-hot through her own manifestations and visions in Wonderland? What about her yelling at the Jabberwock (a manifestation of her own survivor’s guilt, blame, and bargaining) or Mr. Radcliffe? Then Bumby?

I realize that this is all in the beginning stages, but I’m just going to point these out because if they go this route it is really, really not going to be concise and it’s almost as if they’re pulling a Capcom and Ubisoft, here.

I’m just saying. You guys really want to see this happened the same way “Assassin’s Creed” or “Resident Evil” went? Shit is bananas.

See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

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is alice: asylum completely retconning the two previous games or what? edited because i originally wrote this at 12am